D-11 Disapointment

[K6DKO]

Last year was my first year hunting after about 14 years. I only hunt with archery equipment. I had high hope getting back out in to the hills above Glendora where I learned to hunt with a friend but have been disappointed at the amount of deer I have seen. I'm not sure what has changed. The only thing I can point at is the station fire.

 

[QWAAKKILLR]

keep looking. we got three bucks with archery so far this year in d 11.. hunt the burns. I did notice that they are not where they have normally been but once we found them there were a lot and they are super healthy this year

 

[fireman1210]

You better get used to the disappointment. All of the D zones are showing the same signs. Sure there are those that see deer but for the most part the DFG needs to do a much better job with management. Every year they sell more and more tags but less and less deer tags are filled. D-6 has got to be one of the worst zones to hunt in followed close by D-5. Between D-3 to D-6 they sell 40,000 tags and I'm guessing this years deer kills will be maybe 5% or lower. Way to many cattle are eating away at prime deer country, not enough burning allowed so the old forest can let sunlight in so some new growth can happen. New growth is essential for deer. Save your money and hunt out of state where management is done correctly. More and more deer hunters in California are tired of this trend.DFG is doing a very poor job. The other problem is that the DFG is in a pickle because they are mandated to manage our resources on land that they don't own or have control over. The US Forest Service and private timber companies own most of the land. It's all political. If you want to continue to hunt here in California for deer I would start hunting up North. Those X-zones do well because thats where the money ends up.

 

[Bubblehide]

You better get used to the disappointment. All of the D zones are showing the same signs. Sure there are those that see deer but for the most part the DFG needs to do a much better job with management. Every year they sell more and more tags but less and less deer tags are filled. D-6 has got to be one of the worst zones to hunt in followed close by D-5. Between D-3 to D-6 they sell 40,000 tags and I'm guessing this years deer kills will be maybe 5% or lower. Way to many cattle are eating away at prime deer country, not enough burning allowed so the old forest can let sunlight in so some new growth can happen. New growth is essential for deer. Save your money and hunt out of state where management is done correctly. More and more deer hunters in California are tired of this trend.DFG is doing a very poor job. The other problem is that the DFG is in a pickle because they are mandated to manage our resources on land that they don't own or have control over. The US Forest Service and private timber companies own most of the land. It's all political. If you want to continue to hunt here in California for deer I would start hunting up North. Those X-zones do well because thats where the money ends up.

If the DFG doesn't own the land, such as the national forest as discussed in this thread, then how is it the DFG is doing a poor job in resource management? Additionally the vast majority of those X zones are national forest land, so then how does the national forest land management up north differ from down south?

 

[goindeep]

Those X-zones do well because thats where the money ends up.

Where did you get this information?

 

[goindeep]

Save your money and hunt out of state where management is done correctly..

So how is dfg supposed to manage anything if they don't have any money? Good idea!

 

[gundogtrainer]

Fireman1210 low hunter succes has more to do with poor hunting practices than the ququality of the deer heards. I hunt and guide in both the X12 and D11 and see most of the hunters driving roads, riding quads, or only hiking very short distances from thier truck while I am glassing from a ridge. Cattle graze, deer brouse and do not eat the same plants and can live in the same area, the olny threat cattle pose to deer is the rare instance of dissease. Most of the D zones are on western slopes that get more rain and thiker forest grouth than the X zones that are more arid estern slopes and flat lands that promote grouth of plants that deer feed on. Nature not money dictates were deer live. We need more doe hunts but the legeslature took that managment tool away from dfg. We also need better control of preitors but that has been taken away from dfg too.

 

[gundogtrainer]

I have seen more deer Just outside the burn area of D11/ A31 that I hunt than in years past

 

[fireman1210]

Yes, you are right. The DFG needs the money to manage but I just don't see the results from this. I'm not sure what zones in California you hunt but I have hunted
D-5 and D-6 for 30 years and each year is worse then the next. I have hunted in the wilderness back country many miles back to get away from the crowds and should be seeing deer but the numbers that used to be there just are not. When was the last time a control burn happened in any of these zones? The forest service won't let it happen. (Political) Over the last two months during several scouting trips I watch 3 different mountain lions roaming the high peaks. They say just one cat can eat a deer in a several day period and the DFG has known about this problem for years but nothing is done to control them until they venture down to lower ground and go after someones live stock. You tell me why the kill % go down year after year? I'm sorry I just don't see where the money is going and others out there feel the same as I do. D-3 thru D-5 still has 10,000 tags left. The DFG noticed this several years a go so they started raising the fees to off set this. I just think that they should be doing a better job...

 

[goindeep]

$ does not equal more deer! dfg can't change the mountain lion law. They cannot tell the usfs to do prescribed burns to help the deer. They also cannot wave a magic wand around and change weather conditions and stop human encroachment on winter ground. They do the best they can to manage what deer are left. IMO dfg needs to limit hunters to one deer tag per year!

 

[Bubblehide]

Yes, you are right. The DFG needs the money to manage but I just don't see the results from this. I'm not sure what zones in California you hunt but I have hunted
D-5 and D-6 for 30 years and each year is worse then the next. I have hunted in the wilderness back country many miles back to get away from the crowds and should be seeing deer but the numbers that used to be there just are not. When was the last time a control burn happened in any of these zones? The forest service won't let it happen. (Political) Over the last two months during several scouting trips I watch 3 different mountain lions roaming the high peaks. They say just one cat can eat a deer in a several day period and the DFG has known about this problem for years but nothing is done to control them until they venture down to lower ground and go after someones live stock. You tell me why the kill % go down year after year? I'm sorry I just don't see where the money is going and others out there feel the same as I do. D-3 thru D-5 still has 10,000 tags left. The DFG noticed this several years a go so they started raising the fees to off set this. I just think that they should be doing a better job...

My opinion is that there are many reasons for the decline in overall deer numbers, and the contributing factors are being researched as we speak. But, if you seriously think about it, with very few exceptions, the overall past 30 years have been drought years (like I said there have been very few exceptions to this), that cumulative effect has taken a serious toll on the habitat which IMHO has also taken a serious toll on our deer herds. I think that is were it starts.

We could then discuss the impact of mountain lions, which are no protected due to voters taking away the ability of F&G to implement any type of management plan. But considering that the big cats are so successfully elusive, and the enormious task, let alone cost, of researching their numbers, we continue to not have a good idea of the true mountain lion population. But we can pretty positively say that their numbers have at the least, remained stable (my opinion is they have increased), but as the deer population decreases, at some point so should the big cat population. So a couple of the big questions are, how are they surviving (or numbers growing/maintaining) if there main food supply (deer) numbers are so low; and 2). just what is the carrying capacity within specific areas. Due to the excessive monetary cost of accurately answering these questions, we may never get answers. But we don't need to answer these questions to effectively and responsibly manage a healty cat population.

Then there is the poaching aspect. It's well documented that poaching has been a big business for years, even generations. But I doubt there is anything close to serious poaching going on in wilderness area due to the risk factors being so much greater. After all, these poachers want to get in, out and have their booty sold ASAP.

There are possible aspects of disease being responsible for certain herd declines, some of which hold credence in some areas, but I haven't seen the evidence to support the decline the whole state has endured.

As you mentioned, controlled burns; yes I'm sure the lack of controlled burns does have some degree of impact. But I also do see the forest service doing controlled burns; and changing their management practices. In fact over the last two years in one of the Sierra zones I hunt, I have seen burns from spring through the beginning of winter, prior to the roads being closed. They even had a burn during my hunting season that lasted several days, with the smoke filling the canyons I hunt. The burn was a necessary for deer migration, but breathing it all in for several days, completely sucked.

We could continue with one idea after the other, many of which might have great face value. But logic dictates that their are multiple factors, and the environment likely being the main culprit; and IMHO for a variety of reasons, but overall rainfall or lack their of, over the years being at the top of the list.

 

[huntnbob]

if you see more mountian lion and coyote than deer is that good:stir pot:

 

[Bubblehide]

huntnbob wrote "if you see more mountian lion and coyote than deer is that good:stir pot:"




Well purely to :stir pot:, Yes it's good, if there healthy, it means there eating, and I must be overlooking something, :smiley_doh:. But then again my hunting style is kinda like this: anic:

But if I do happen to connect it's gonna be this: :toast-yellow:

 

[hunter Gabe]

Do you no any good areas to bow or rifle hunt d11 zone for 2011?

 

[slanttop357]

You got to get out there and look and scout sometimes u will find the deer where u least expect to see them good luck.

 

[DirtyDave]

Do you no any good areas to bow or rifle hunt d11 zone for 2011?

Dude, get out there and SCOUT!
Flat out asking for spots does not really work here. Unless you have another spot that you are willing to trade? That is a more acceptable practice. For example, Say something like "hey I have never hunted D11, but I have some good spots in D16 if someone wants to trade info"
But if you have nothing to offer, most people will not give up their hard-earned hunting spots

 

[TWEETER3]

DirtyDave and Slanttop357,

Hey are you guys hunting D14 this year? Way thinking I know some spots and maybe we could all hook up take the rifles out and do some scouting for some bucks. If no bucks turn up then we can do a little coyote relocation.

 

[slanttop357]

Hi Dale i do hunt D14 i am keeping my fingers crossed i pull a A20 my choice this year is A20-A31-D14, Good luck.

 

[TWEETER3]

Good Luck brother. I went scouting yesterday up by Lytle Creek and seen two does. Still not sure if im going D11 or D14 this year.

 

[DirtyDave]

DirtyDave and Slanttop357,

Hey are you guys hunting D14 this year? Way thinking I know some spots and maybe we could all hook up take the rifles out and do some scouting for some bucks. If no bucks turn up then we can do a little coyote relocation.

I have not hunted D14, I usually hunt D13. I put in for G13 this year, so we will see if I draw that tag before deciding on a 2nd tag.