I CANT BELIEVE Some of you are using Ar-15 for Deer.

[dunderee]

This my last post on this. If you guys think your ar-15s 223 are great deer caliber choices, it's your right to use them, I'm sorry for trying to help and educate you on this. When your next deer runs off and you can't find it. I simply ask you to slap your self really hard and say " dam that guy was right". Oh and don't forget to fill out your tag and quit hunting deer for that year. I know right like that will happen.. exactly my point... any thing else is bs! Have a great day and hunting season, I want to thank each and everyone of you for putting up a good argument. I really enjoyed this one..

 

[solus]

Keep your rude opinion to yourself then. Just saying. You did not put down any facts jusy opinions.

 

[Bubblehide]

Okay, I'll chime in on this one, at great risk of being bashed by opinion.

There was a day when in general, I would agree with some opinion being opined here. But that would have been limited to the days of lead bullets only. I would have said that, for most, unless shot placement was assured, the 223 would be under powered. To fully understand and "EDUCATE" ourselves on this matter, I think we need to look a bit into the history of the 223, at least a cursory visit to the history of it. The 223 was first introduced due to Eugene Stoner, and adopted by OUR military where it gained it's popularity and the subsequent R&D hovered for most of it's existence. As such, the intended use of the 223 was to injure and mame enemy soldiers, requiring others to take care of their comrades, thus taking more soldiers out of the battle.

However, those days have long past. For years now, modern bullet manufactures have been making bullets in the 223 caliber in their lead versions (bullets specifically designed in the 223 caliber to KILL deer and deer sized animals. Now I am about to restate myself, from previous comments I have made. The introduction of copper ammo has completely changed the game, and many, if not most have not kept up with the technological advances; thus holding on to outdated ideologies. There was a time that African big game guides would tell their clients to bring nothing less than a 338 caliber, but very strongly recommended larger. Well, with the advent of copper bullets and their subsequent significant improvement in KILLING performance of Africa's big game species the guides there now suggest the 338 as the largest caliber needed to take the largest, toughest of their species, and recommend a standard high caliber rifle for all but their very largest game species. The fact is that with copper, weight retention and kinetic transfer has been significantly improved. As such, the old days of needing more gun is just an unnecessary option/myth, that obviously some have great difficulty letting go of. The bottom line is that if you are selective about the bullet you shoot, choosing a modern one specifically designed to take deer, the 223 is an effective choice. But the fact is that you are free to choose to believe in modern science or myth (if you like, you can call those myths outdated facts).

 

[adam32]

This my last post on this. If you guys think your ar-15s 223 are great deer caliber choices, it's your right to use them, I'm sorry for trying to help and educate you on this. When your next deer runs off and you can't find it. I simply ask you to slap your self really hard and say " dam that guy was right". Oh and don't forget to fill out your tag and quit hunting deer for that year. I know right like that will happen.. exactly my point... any thing else is bs! Have a great day and hunting season, I want to thank each and everyone of you for putting up a good argument. I really enjoyed this one..

People post facts and you run off?

I see you mentioned AR15 again, does that mean you meant to degrade the AR guys or just the .223 Rem?

I'll ask again, is it just the .223 Rem that you believe is unethical for deer or ALL .223/.224 cartridges? What about a .224 TTH? .223 WSSM? .223 AI?

 

[solus]

Okay, I'll chime in on this one, at great risk of being bashed by opinion.

There was a day when in general, I would agree with some opinion being opined here. But that would have been limited to the days of lead bullets only. I would have said that, for most, unless shot placement was assured, the 223 would be under powered. To fully understand and "EDUCATE" ourselves on this matter, I think we need to look a bit into the history of the 223, at least a cursory visit to the history of it. The 223 was first introduced due to Eugene Stoner, and adopted by OUR military where it gained it's popularity and the subsequent R&D hovered for most of it's existence. As such, the intended use of the 223 was to injure and mame enemy soldiers, requiring others to take care of their comrades, thus taking more soldiers out of the battle.

However, those days have long past. For years now, modern bullet manufactures have been making bullets in the 223 caliber in their lead versions (bullets specifically designed in the 223 caliber to KILL deer and deer sized animals. Now I am about to restate myself, from previous comments I have made. The introduction of copper ammo has completely changed the game, and many, if not most have not kept up with the technological advances; thus holding on to outdated ideologies. There was a time that African big game guides would tell their clients to bring nothing less than a 338 caliber, but very strongly recommended larger. Well, with the advent of copper bullets and their subsequent significant improvement in KILLING performance of Africa's big game species the guides there now suggest the 338 as the largest caliber needed to take the largest, toughest of their species, and recommend a standard high caliber rifle for all but their very largest game species. The fact is that with copper, weight retention and kinetic transfer has been significantly improved. As such, the old days of needing more gun is just an unnecessary option/myth, that obviously some have great difficulty letting go of. The bottom line is that if you are selective about the bullet you shoot, choosing a modern one specifically designed to take deer, the 223 is an effective choice. But the fact is that you are free to choose to believe in modern science or myth (if you like, you can call those myths outdated facts).

Thank you. These are more facts than opinion. A simple search on the internet would have shown the advancements of bullet selection. He mentioned he reloaded yet he didnt do his homework. Sounds like someone who only works off what he has heard and not read.

 

[quaildeath]

Sounds like he was more against the scary black rifle to me....IMHO.

 

[dustin ray]

dunderee You don't think vary highly of your fellow hunter especially ones that hunt with a AR or 223

 

[mezcan]

In the words of the not so intelligent ( and non-swimmer) Rodney King " can't we all just get along?" We all like to hunt , we all have opinions . Nuff said . Next topic .


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[Bubblehide]

Thank you. These are more facts than opinion. A simple search on the internet would have shown the advancements of bullet selection. He mentioned he reloaded yet he didnt do his homework. Sounds like someone who only works off what he has heard and not read.

His is an opinion held by many; it doesn't make him a bad guy. I think he likely had good intentions, it's just that his information is likely based on outdated information; something all of us are guilty of at times. But enough with that end of this.

Thank you for the thank you, I appreciate it. The one thing I like about our Deceleration of Independence is the statement "We hold these truths as self evident". That is such a powerful statement. I try to utilize that concept in my writing style, writing in such a way that the reader concludes that what I have to say, is, well, a self evident truth. However, a civil conversation with disagreement often leads to re-evaluation of one's beliefs, expansion, deletion... my self evident truth approach doesn't tend to do that many times. Anyway, once again, thank you!

 

[hunterdoug]

Yes we don't need to bash... only agree to disagree, size matters sometimes but how you use it makes the difference,... my 285lb pig went 10yrds and keeled over with a bow and arrow, same with a buck...four bounds and down...under. 40 yrds:wavin hello:

 

[superduty]

Personally I think it's great that so many are so passionate about ethics when it comes to harvesting an animal. Shows quality still exists in our hunters which is imperative in keeping with the great tradition of hunting and passing that down from generation to generation. It's also conversations like this that allows others to get some facts to learn by too but I feel the key word here to focus on is opinion VS facts. As long as there not confused then most of all this can stay in a constructive light even if it's simply constructive criticism based on opinion. I do know that my opinion is that my safe would not be complete without my Remington signature edition Byron South AR in 223. If my property was being attacked by deer which happens quite frequently that most likely would not be my go to gun but if a pack of yotes were or some two legged bad intentioned people were it most deffinetly would be. Would I personally verbally condemn a hunter using a AR in 223 for deer hunting, no! But I would most definitely hope they had the chance to read some of the great facts and information that has been provided by the guys here that took the time to share their knowledge with the rest of us.

 

[Mr. Luckypants]

This my last post on this. If you guys think your ar-15s 223 are great deer caliber choices, it's your right to use them, I'm sorry for trying to help and educate you on this. When your next deer runs off and you can't find it. I simply ask you to slap your self really hard and say " dam that guy was right". Oh and don't forget to fill out your tag and quit hunting deer for that year. I know right like that will happen.. exactly my point... any thing else is bs! Have a great day and hunting season, I want to thank each and everyone of you for putting up a good argument. I really enjoyed this one..

You remember what Jim Dumbo I mean Zumbo said about ARs? You remember what happened to him? Don't be that guy.

 

[rosss1897]

i think everyone would agree 1000 fp energy is the minimum for taking deer size big game,the .223 remington with 68gr bullets loaded at max speed 3069fps bullet bc .355 drops to 979 at 200 yards,thats in a 24 inch barrel,the 223 with 80gr bullet bc .453 max speed 2869 drops to 928 at 300 yards,wind drift at 300 yards with a 15mph cross wind is 7.9 with the 80gr, 9.3 with the 68gr with shorter barrels the velocity drops off, so with the 68gr 223 bullet it has the energy to do the job to 200 yards with the 80gr 300 yards in a perfect world

 

[Deleted member 33033]

I can't believe anyone is worried about what others hunt with. Hunt YOUR way and don't be a preacher unless you are ordained. An AR15 is fine for deer...just rock the bumpfire.

 

[mezcan]

I can't believe anyone is worried about what others hunt with. Hunt YOUR way and don't be a preacher unless you are ordained. An AR15 is fine for deer...just rock the bumpfire.

Word !


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