I CANT BELIEVE Some of you are using Ar-15 for Deer.

[dunderee]

I've been hearing alot about folks hunting and killing deer with ar15's. I know some of you are wounding critters and not finding them. I understand that a perfect shot will put them down, but seriously. Get a real deer rife something .243 or bigger. I used to knock the .243 but I did a lot of research and it's I hate to say this but it's a descent bullet. Hearing about these non accurate ar's is a joke. Granted the ar-10 is wonderful and great on deer. The 15's are just way to weak. Especially with any kind of distance.

 

[quaildeath]

The accuracy argument of ARs is in the past and no longer relevant. A rule of thumb, $1000 or more gets you 1 MOA or less.
Some research can easily get a MOA rifle for much less.
.....and an AR platform can be chambered in pretty much anything now. So when someone says they hunt with an AR or you hear a negative story, it does not necessarily mean it is a .223/5.56.

I agree with you that a .22 is maybe a little small for dear, but can be done. Saw a show where a guy had a Ruger Mini-14 for blacktail deer in Alaska. Looked like plenty of horsepower for these smaller deer.

 

[dunderee]

The accuracy argument of ARs is in the past and no longer relevant. A rule of thumb, $1000 or more gets you 1 MOA or less.
Some research can easily get a MOA rifle for much less.
.....and an AR platform can be chambered in pretty much anything now. So when someone says they hunt with an AR or you hear a negative story, it does not necessarily mean it is a .223/5.56.

I agree with you that a .22 is maybe a little small for dear, but can be done. Saw a show where a guy had a Ruger Mini-14 for blacktail deer in Alaska. Looked like plenty of horsepower for these smaller deer.

Everyone I talk to says they dropped right where it was standing.. I know and have experienced a well placed shot and deer run and then expire. I get that some ar platforms have better bullets like the ar10 .308 but the 223 or 556 isn't enough.

 

[Aught-SixGuy]

I saw a video a month or so ago where a dude used an AR in .223 to kill a bear. Took him three shots but the bear was dead in less than 10 seconds. I've killed deer with a .223 bolt gun, it did fine. I'm not a fan of the AR platform, but it works.

 

[Journeyman]

I completely disagree and I have zero interest in owning an ar-15, ar-10, AK-47 or any of the other zombie apocalypse guns that seem to be so popular (though I'd happily make room for a wood stocked M1A in my safe). I was hunting deer in D14 a few years ago and some guy I met on the mountain told me that my 270 was to small to kill deer as he pulled a round from the sling of his 338 win mag to show me. I didn't bother arguing with him but I think there's a lot more to rifle selection than how hard it kicks.

There are plenty of extremely accurate ar-15's out there and the rest of them are probably plenty accurate to hunt deer inside of 300 yards or so, I'd say 2 MOA would be acceptable. I also think the 223 with the right bullet selection is perfectly capable of ethically putting down deer inside of that 300 yards (maybe further but that's where I'd feel comfortable looking at the ballistics charts when considering the down range velocity and energy).

I personally prefer a mauser style bolt action rifle (Winchester, Kimber, etc.) and I'm obsessed with 270's but that's just what I like. Here's the deal though, a 270, 30-06 or 300 win mag with the wrong bullet selection and bad shot placement can wound a deer only for it to die days later and go unrecovered by the hunter just as easily as a 223 fired from an ar.

I think your beef may just be with knuckle heads who don't do enough research on their ammo selection, don't practice shooting their rifles and are willing to empty a magazine on a moving animal that's out of range with no concern for the consequences of their actions and how it could possibly effect all of us as hunters. If so then I completely agree with you.

 

[dustin ray]

i haven't used it on deer but its a yote and pig killer

 

[Gr8bawana]

A bad shot with ANY rifle could result with a wounded and lost animal. I would rather see someone shoot a light caliber accurately rather than a magnum with magnum recoil and have a flinch that doesn't allow them to be accurate.

 

[54hawken]

I can't believe you would make an ignorant statement about a weapon platform you know nothing about. I have an ar-15 upper in 25wssm that matches the performance of a 25-06 more than enough to drop a deer. AR*15 uppers are also available 243wssm that surpasses the performance of the 243 win that you mentioned. 6.8 spc and many other calibers capable of killing deer. 223 is more than capable of killing deer at a reasonable distance in the hands of someone capable of shooting 1 moa or better

 

[dunderee]

I specifically mentioned .223 or 556. I know there is good calibers in the ar platform. I was simply saying for Deer the minimum caliber should be at least .243.. and I love the 270 round it's fantastic. The 223 doesn't leave any room for error or you'll be chasing a animal a long ways.. 223 is an excellent coyote gun no argument there..

 

[dunderee]

And you guys are right a bad shot is a bad shot. I'm not even sure if .223 will go through the shoulder at 300 yards. And the bullet drop is retarded.

 

[Journeyman]

And you guys are right a bad shot is a bad shot. I'm not even sure if .223 will go through the shoulder at 300 yards. And the bullet drop is retarded.

Again I completely disagree and the bolded part above leads me to believe that you haven't even looked at the ballistic tables. Trajectory would be of least concern to me inside of 300 yards or so. If you were to say energy or maybe velocity out at 300 yards then I may see your point but the trajectory inside of 300 yards easily matches a 243, mind you with a lighter bullet weight which is what calls the energy into question. I'm not arguing that the 223 is ideal but I fail to see the point in starting a thread to knock ar's and the 223 without first doing some research.

On a side note I personnaly would hunt with a 22 caliber bullet for deer if it was fired from a 22-250 with a fast twist barrel as it allows you to use a heavier weight bullet.

Here's some good reading

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...d=referral|utmcct=/&__utmv=-&__utmk=265761039

 

[dunderee]

The two major sporting ammunition manufacturers that offer light medium game loads for the .223 are Federal and Winchester. Federal offer a 64 grain soft point at 3090fps, the 55 grain trophy bonded bear claw at 3100fps and the excellent 60 grain Nosler Partition at 3160fps although 22” barrels average 70fps below Federal test barrel specs. Winchester offer their traditional 64 grain power point at 3020fps. All of these loads are adequate for chest shooting lighter medium game but are very mild performers and are slow killing at ranges beyond 100 yards with a noticeable deterioration in killing power between 200 and 250 yards when chest shooting medium game.

One new comer on the international market is Fiocchi. Fiocchi produce a very basic 55 grain soft point load at 3180fps yet this bullet stays together extremely well when used on light medium game. The Fiocchi projectile is able to break both shoulders of animals weighing less than 60kg (130lb), much the same as the Federal Premium loads listed above. Nevertheless, kills can still be slow with ordinary chest shots, regardless of the excellent performance of this projectile.

Most other .223 loads are designed strictly for varminting and true muzzle velocities for all brands of 55 grain ammunition usually average around 3180fps from 22” barrels. Hornady have focused on the production of V-Max loads, starting at 40 grains up to the 55 grain V-max. Remington produce the 55 grain Accutip, a 55 grain hollow point and a conventional 55 grain soft point load. The softest of these loads are the V-max and Remington hollow point which are adequate for neck, head and meat saver shots on lighter medium game.

Most ar's have barrels less than 20 inches.. so even weaker.

 

[dunderee]

Nice article. And thank you.. my whole point to all of this, when new hunters are at rifle buying time please do not suggest the 223. They will be very disappointed. . And of course I am taking for Deer and larger critters. It's to small.

 

[dunderee]

And just for the record I've studied lots of ballistic charts. I'm a avid hunter shooter and reloader. I reload a lot of different calibers. Including 22-250. Knowing what I know using 223 on deer is a freaking joke. Anything else is bull siiiii..

 

[Mr. Luckypants]

First deer I've killed was with a bolt action 223. Dropped the buck right in his tracks at 50yds. High shoulder shot. I was a young pup then but graduated to a 300WM. If all I had was a 223 then I wouldn't have any problem using it on deer. Given an option I would choose more gun.

Accuracy with a AR? Wanna make a bet my AR can out shoot your "hunting" rifle?

 

[dunderee]

Given an option I would choose more gun.

Accuracy with a AR? Wanna make a bet my AR can out shoot your "hunting" rifle?[/QUOTE]


Yes

 

[Mr. Luckypants]

Not trying to scare you away but my best group at 100yds is 10 shots inside 1/2".

 

[dunderee]

Very nice. But this is about the strength of the caliber for Deer hunting purpose. Like set a piece of steel at 300 yards and see if the 223 goes through it. Soft steel.

 

[MariotheBarber]

Wasn't the DFG talking about making it illegal to use the .223 on deer a year or so ago?

 

[jbao]

outside of calibers and ballistics, do the AR guys feel super awkward walking through the woods with a machine gun? i've always found tacticool ARs to be the gun-version of a fedora and cargo pants.